Pat Martino Interview

by Rick Landers.

This past spring, jazz guitarist extraordinaire Pat Martino kept the crowd mesmerized at Blues Alley, a club that can be found in the heart of Georgetown, Washington, D.C. During the evening, Pat held the spotlight as he coursed his way through a steady stream of very cool jazz guitar. The day had been a busy one for Pat and his wife, Aya (Ayako Asahi), with Pat starting the day in conversation with a local D.C. radio host and an interview with Modern Guitars.

Washington-based photographer Michael G. Stewart and I met with Pat and Aya Martino in their Georgetown hotel. Aya was busy on her laptop when Pat opened the door and greeted us with a smile. Across from a leather sofa sat two fine Gibson archtops that we would end up talking about. We would later learn that one belonged to Aya, who is also a fine guitarist who oftentimes shares the stage with Pat. The harmony on stage further deepens what is obviously a rich and rewarding marriage.

Since he began playing guitar in the 1960s, Pat's musical journey has cut a path through the fields of rock, pop, hard-bop, world music and jazz where he is known as a forerunner of jazz fusion. He's found inspiration in the lives of such greats as Wes Montgomery and John Coltrane, two artists he met in the early days of his career. Along the way, he's also performed with artists such as Chick Corea, Lloyd Price, Woody Herman, Joe Pesci, Trudy Pitts and other compelling musicians.

During our conversation it became self-evident that he mentors others in both music and the approach he has chosen to guide his way of life. Pat's gitar and music therapy seminars, clinics and master classes have been taught throughout the United States and as far away as Japan, Italy, France, Ireland, and the Netherlands. The day before we met the couple, Pat had taught a master seminar in nearby Maryland. When not traveling, Martino serves as an adjunct faculty member at the University of Arts in Philadelphia, PA.

Pat Martino's contributions to music have been recognized by institutions and fans alike. His honors include having the 1995 Mellon Jazz Festival dedicated in his honor; receiving a 1996 "Walk of Fame Award" by the Philadelphia Alliance and Grammy nominations in 2002 for Best Jazz Instrumental Album, [Live at Yoshi's] and Best Jazz Instrumental Solo on "All Blues." These were followed up in 2003 with Grammy nominations for Best Jazz Instrumental Album, [Think Tank,] and Best Jazz Instrumental Solo on "Africa."

Before we started our interview, I asked if he would be comfortable with questions about his life before he underwent brain surgery in 1980, at a time when he found himself with severe memory loss. He replied, "No, of course not."

Others who have written about tend to Pat focus on the after affects of the surgery, particularly noting that he'd completely forgotten how to play guitar. But,during our conversation, his responses conveyed something deeper and more poetically honest, something that enriches our understanding of Pat's relationship with the instrument. He gave us a heightened appreciation for his 1984 comeback album, The Return, that reflects a timeless love of music and the instrument that has helped him enjoy and learn from the company of others.

Rick Landers: Philadelphia is known for being a bedrock of music, including having its own Philadelphia sound. Did you pick up any of that music scene before you left and moved to New York?

Pat Martino: I picked up and was plugged in to the earlier days, Bobby Rydell, Frankie Avalon, Chubby Checker and Fabian. I was involved at that time. My manager was Jerry Blavat and I was very prone to rock 'n' roll.

That was part of my youth and it just seemed to cut off at a certain point. I came in second place at a contest at the Sons of Italy. My father brought me and I came in second place to an 8-year-old ballerina, a little girl that won a $500 prize. I won a record of my choice, any of the records on a long rectangular table. There were all kinds of albums there, 33 1/3 RPM vinyl LPs.

There was one that was different from all the rest, not because who it was but because of the color of it. It was black and white. All the other albums were full color, so I chose the one thing that was different than all the others.

Rick: A contrarian.

Pat: Contrary to the rest. And it just so happened to be Donald Byrd and saxophonist Gigi Gryce on the cover of the album Jazz Orchestra [Ed: Donald Byrd / Gigi Gryce - Jazz Lab,The Jazz Lab Quintet and Orchestra/1957, Colombia].

That was my first experience with jazz. I took it back home and I played it and played it and played it, and I wanted to become a trumpet player. My father said to me, "No, you’re not allowed to even get close to a trumpet because what’s going to happen is you’re going to ruin your lips and the girls will never like you any more."

Rick: He had his priorities.

Pat: He had his priorities straight. So, I began to go through a metamorphosis because of my first influence to jazz at that time.

Rick: How old were you?

Pat: I was about 13 years old. And it exposed me to a different culture than I was experiencing and the closer I got to jazz the further I got from my environment. That caused my decision to go to New York City.

Rick: That would have been around 1958?

Pat: Yeah.

Rick: Were you into Elvis Presley and the rock 'n' roll at that time?

Pat: For the moment, just at the moment and only on 45 rpms.

Rick: When you went to New York, did you work at the Brill building with Bobbie Darrin and that very talented crew?

Pat: No, I went to Harlem.

Rick: Harlem?

Pat: Yes! I went to Harlem with Willis Jackson and I worked Small Paradise and Count Basie’s in Harlem in the 130s of 7th Avenue. It was 7th Avenue then. It no longer is.

Many, many things changed. But, I was more interested in the culture than I was in the idiom. Guitar has always been second nature to me. It’s always been a blessing in disguise. It’s similar to what I mentioned on this morning's radio interview. It’s similar to penmanship, to me. I truly enjoy precision and grace in signature and the same thing applies to the way I hold the glass, the way I hold the guitar. The guitar is just more intricate in terms of what it offers.

Rick: Like calligraphy or articulation.

Pat: Yes, exactly. So, I found it more proficient to study the people as opposed to their profession, because I was self contained in terms of my abilities.

Rick: Who did you find influential on your guitar playing, once you started playing guitar and playing jazz?

Pat: There were many, many players, I mean, children are something else to begin with. They’re like antennas, you know? They’re affected by anything that comes into their view or into their space. I was affected by first and foremost, Johnny Smith. But, you know I think I have to be honest with you and give credit where credit is due. My father lived for the weekend. All week long he worked in a tailor factory pressing lapels. And he would come home on the weekend. And the weekend was nothing but jazz records and him picking up a guitar in the basement. He’d be strumming and singing and he’d be singing songs to mom. So, it was full of music. The house was always full of music on the weekend. And all week long it was empty. It was empty because both mom and dad worked in a sweatshop.

He was pressing lapels, she was sewing lapels and then they would come home. It was just a very interesting situation for me as a child and on the weekend. It allowed me to be closer with him, regarding his interest. I really believe my interest was parental. I had no brothers or sisters, so my best friends were my parents. I got closely into what his amateuristic enjoyment was.

Rick: Didn’t he play with, at least at one point, with Eddie Lang.

Pat: He played with Eddie Lang for about two or three weeks. And Eddie taught him how to play some changes and how to strum. He was just flabbergasted by that, you know? And he continued to do that for the rest of his life and really enjoyed that. But, he procrastinated with putting other things aside and moving towards music as a beneficial profession.

Rick: Do you think he had talent to do that professionally?

Pat: I think he would have, if he had chosen to do so. But, he never did.

Rick: I understand one of your main influences was a jazz guitarist and music instructor named, Dennis Sandole. I believe his original name was Sandole and he changed it to Sandol? Is that correct?

Pat: Sandole, yes.

Rick: What can you tell us about his approach to music and how you’ve absorbed his concepts into your own playing, and maybe even your own instruction?

Pat:I have absolutely absorbed nothing from Dennis.

Rick: Well, okay.

Pat: And I’ve absorbed everything from Dennis. I’ve absorbed nothing regarding music and his procedures, which are recommended responsibilities on the student provided by Dennis as a mentor. My interest in Dennis was Dennis himself. I studied Dennis, not what he taught. Primarily because what he taught and how he presented it was prone toward difficulties which were unnecessary.

A good example would be his handwriting. His signature and his handwriting and the lessons that he wrote out on a weekly basis were similar to a physician’s prescription. They took so much detailed dedication to learning more about him and what he was trying to get you to do, that I found that to be useless and wasteless. It was an interruption on the ecstasy that I had since my childhood, since birth. I always loved to play and, you know, when parents come in and say stop playing and do your homework, that remained to be the very same thing with everyone from that point forward. I disliked having to do homework. That’s why I went to Harlem at the age of 15. So, I disliked having to be prone towards someone else’s views. I was more interested in the someone else.

Rick: That’s a different perspective than most people would entertain.

Pat: Totally different perspective. And so I studied Dennis as a person. I studied his fashion, his apparel; I studied the room that he functioned within. I studied the piano on one side being immaculately clean and his guitar over in the far corner of the room being absolutely covered with dust, never used. And I found that to be profound about Dennis. And the fact that his presence was extremely spiritual, Dennis being Jehovah Witness. And the continuity of his appearance being repetitive and repetitive and repetitive. An identity that was obviously present and really strongly identified as someone of importance.

So, I studied Dennis and through this came contact with John Coltrane, and with Benny Golson, and James Moody, and Philly Joe Jones McCoy, and all of those guys there. So, it seemed to be prone towards bringing me away from the guitar, allowing the guitar to exist and at the same time, becoming more focused upon our culture. Jazz was extremely active at that time, so I was closer to that. Dennis Sandole was profound as a human being. He was a wonderful, wonderful human being. I got the same thing out of Wes Montgomery, to be honest.

Rick: In what way?

Pat: In the same way. I was more interested in Wes’s presence as a gracious human being. Really, a wonderful, wonderful person with a lot of gratitude for his accomplishments. It was obvious on his face, the smiles, the twinkle in his eyes. It was just a wonderful thing. So, that’s always been what the guitar has been to me. It’s been another operative utensil to bring me into opportunities, that if I was interested in the craft or the profession alone, would be tedious, compared to some of the advantages and opportunities that have arisen through social interaction with some very important people.

Rick: Would you repeat the story that you were telling during your radio interview this morning, about meeting Wes.

Pat: Well, that’s something that I noticed myself the other night, not last night, but the night before. There was a little boy sitting at a table with his parents. And I was just taken back by his complete absorption in the event that was taking place. He was rhythmically in motion with the music. He was me when I described Wes Montgomery. It was exactly the very same thing. And the fact that I walked over to the table and put my arm over his shoulder and said, "You really made my night by enjoying this so much."

Rick: That’s sweet.

Pat: That is the same thing that happened to me with Wes. And that’s what I learned from Wes, more than the guitar. Of course, the guitar too. But more than that, the gratitude and the graciousness.

Rick: How has your personal guitar practice evolved over the years? Did you practice a lot when you were a kid and now you don’t practice much now?

Pat: I never practiced, I indulge. You know? Guitar to me is an addiction. It’s not something that I want to practice to become better than I am with it. It is given to me. I don’t ask of it. It gives to me. It teaches me.

I remember, I try to remember, and sometimes I’m inefficient when it comes to being able to conquer this, but I try to remember how long it took me to learn how to drive. And I think it was maybe something like 20 or 30 days. Once I learned how to drive, I no longer had to practice. The steering column, the ignition or the lock on the door outside of the car, all of these things are exactly the same as the guitar. It’s a vehicle and it has a purpose. It has no meaning until it’s in one’s hands and it’s used for that individual’s intentions.

Rick: They both take you on a journey.

Pat:It will take you on a journey, wherever you want to go! And it’s a very powerful vehicle. And it should be treated, accordingly. It should be kept in perfect condition at all times, in tune and balanced. I said that yesterday in master class. And I said to one of the students that I really respect and deeply admire musicians. And I do so because I don’t consider myself a musician. I really don’t. My interest is not in the music business. It has nothing to do with it. My interest is in a happy life and the enjoyment of each and every moment is an art in itself.

Rick: It’s a zen-like approach.

Pat:It’s extremely zen-like. Although I don’t really adhere to any form of ritualistic demand from any religion. But all of them, in terms of theosophically speaking, are vividly pointing to sensitivity, which is a very difficult situation. They are demanding sensitivity in the midst of insensitivity, if only so that you can see both at once. And the moment you can see both at once, you are in a third place. And that’s where you attain a greater consciousness.

Rick: With respect to the master class, is it something that you’re taking from city to city as you’re doing tours?

Pat: At times I am. It goes as far as being adjunct faculty in several conservatories worldwide and universities.

Rick: What age group are you offering this master class to?

Pat: It’s open.

Rick: So you could have someone as young as 10 and someone as old as 50 or 60?

Pat: Yes. It makes no difference. I think a master class comes down to be able to witness someone who is enjoying you.

Rick: Gets back to your philosophy of …

Pat: Who is enjoying you as part of his or her life. And everything in it is actively precise. The guitar in my hands, when I do a master class, sings. It sings with precision and meaning. And any curiosity in terms of what it is I’m doing and why I’m doing it and how I’ve attained the ability to do that, that’s what the class is all about.

To be able to compress over 50 years of experience in 90 minutes to two hours is a very difficult task. The greatest thing that I can do is to be as honest as possible and to reduce the complexity of the instrument itself, down to a basic blueprint. Similar to, let’s say, the anatomy of a specific part of the body. For instance in a cardiologist’s office, when you go there you see on the wall a picture of the heart. And you’ll see upon it locations with descriptions of purpose.

That’s the same thing I do with the guitar. The guitar is a blueprint. I give a blueprint of the instrument. I give an immediate breakdown of the instrument, of it’s anatomy, how it works, what it’s all about. And then it’s up to you, whatever you want to do with it, for the rest of your life.

Rick: When you were on the radio earlier today, you were lamenting the change in personal interaction with audience at clubs, as opposed to many years ago. Does the master class offer you that chance to interact with individuals again and to have a one-on-one chance to pass that on to human beings, instead of just a faceless crowd?

Pat: Yes, yes it does. It does.

Rick: To get an intimacy in the class whereas you might not get that in a gig?

Pat: There is a difference between a student body at a conservatory or a university, compared to a smaller environment with a group of people who are prone toward the intimacy itself. There are different levels of real time without the interference of expectations.

Expectations with a student body is still subject to or affected by the curriculum that they’re exposed to. And when I work within these situations, I have to make it a point to retain that curriculum as pre-requisite to anything that is abstractly adversive to it. So, these are very interesting challenges, in terms of education. I don’t believe a good example and the curriculums for most of the music training is based upon piano and the scalular appropriateness and the modal studies that are, you know, coming from Johann Sebastian Bach.

I do believe that these were for the musical community, but not for the instrumentalist. Primarily because the guitar has its own mystic secrets and it contains some very powerful insight with regards to architecture and some other things in life.

Rick: Like Fibonacci's sequence?

Pat: Yes. So, too, does the piano. A good example would be in terms of physical similarities. The piano has seven white keys and five black keys. You have five black keys like the five senses and you have seven white keys like the seven chakras. And you have the sixth sense of course, the ability to realize the presence of these functions from a distance, not subject to them, and that’s consciousness. So, each of the instruments have their profound powers. Each of them. And I see it really important for that to be notified to the student body.

And it is prerequisite to understand music as a language and that’s what they’re there to study. Harmony and theory presents that. Sight seeing and seven clefs and everything that goes with it for different positions in the structure of the profession. But, that’s based on addition, the piano, is on addition. Seven plus five equals 12. The guitar is three times four or four times three. It’s multiplication. Percussion is division. Valve instruments are subtraction. So, these instruments have secrets of that nature and I think that educationally, most of the conservatories are prone to miss sight of these factors and not providing for the sole individualistic instrumentalists, dedicated to the separate instruments.

The instructors that are available on a separate context, education-wise, are not prone toward that. They’re more prone toward the responsibility of the continuance of the well-tempered curriculum.

Rick: Did you have many interesting questions that were brought up during the master class?

Pat:Questions are, you know, there’s always that. There’s always an interesting question. But, it’s one of the most difficult moments prior to the entrance of that, and whether it stimulates others in the group to, in concord with what takes place. Most of them are afraid to ask. They seem to confront the lack of courage. It’s the same thing as going on stage and performing. For them to raise their hand in a student body is literally to stand up and be seen, be heard. And it’s difficult for them at that moment. The psychology of it is a necessity in itself.

Rick: Moving in a different direction, let’s talk about rock 'n' roll a little bit, and jazz. Rock 'n' roll over the last 20 years has evolved where the visual media of rock videos have come into vogue and I haven’t seen that quite as much in jazz. Do you think that because of the convergence of the two modes, the aural and the visual, with rock, do you think that the visual takes away from the aural?

Pat: No, I don’t think it takes away from it at all. I think it enhances the totality of the experience.It’s an event. When you have the Rolling Stones on stage you have a flow within the stadium. And everyone there is one thing. Everyone there is that moment. And it has nothing to do with the music, or the idiom, idiomatically what the music is projecting through and toward. It’s just the accumulation of everything as one volcanic event.

Rick: An eruption.

Pat: Yeah, it’s an eruption of all the aggressive feelings that we all feel, and you keep inside, and you let it out, and that’s what they do. That’s what they do for people. And that’s priceless. That’s rewarding in itself.

Rick: Do you find jazz a much different experience for you in playing it and conveying it as opposed to, maybe the rock 'n' roll that you did earlier?

Pat: I think so. I think jazz is closer to, you see I’ve always seen rock 'n' roll as prone to the, how can I put it? The vibration of the body, you know? You have to get up and you have to move with it, because it’s moving you. It’s doing that to you. Jazz will do that to some degree, but it’s more to the mind.

Rick: It’s visceral?

Pat: It’s visceral, yeah. It is. So, I see that, and especially in musicians in general. In jazz they're really curious and deeply interested in finding out what is being used for doing that, the formulas or the exotic recipes of one mode against one form of substitutions or another, or what’s being used. So, that’s not what’s normally experienced in rock 'n' roll or some of the other forms. Pop music too.

Rick: Have you looked at different modes from different world music, Mali music or Indian music?

Pat:Sure.

Rick: Do you absorb that and move that into the jazz that you play?

Pat: Very much so. In fact in 1997, I believe it was, I had the pleasure of being a guest artist and functioning with Zakir Hussein on tablas. It was the album called Firedance, and it’s guitar and sitar, violin, tablas, flutes. It was wonderful. It’s nothing but northern ragas from India, folk ragas, momentarily just re-shaped. It’s almost like taking the idea of a raga, a form of content, and seeing it as fluidic. Seeing it as fluid and pouring it into a different glass. It takes the shape of what it’s poured into. We poured it into jazz and it took an astounding shape in itself. It was a wonderful experience.

Rick: Like Ravi Shankar and the Beatles.

Pat:Yes, it was something like that. It was just a very interesting thing.

Rick: I’ll have to give that a listen. Let’s talk about your Pat Martino Signature Gibson. How did that come about? And then I’m going to have some questions about why you chose the '57 humbuckers your choice of pickups?

Pat: Where would you like to begin?

Rick: Let’s start with how the guitar evolved and how it came about as a Pat Martino model Gibson?

Pat: Oh gee, that’s interesting. I began to play guitar again in 1983. Privately, in isolation. Just to get away from the torment of trying to recover. And the guitar became something to lose myself into, like it did as a child.

At that particular time, the guitar that I had was, God, what did I have? I had a solid body guitar that Tommy Gumina over at Polytone designed for me, as part of the endorsement for the instrument that he was going to market. So, I’d been using that at the time, along with an Ibanez, who wanted endorsement. In fact, a picture of the Ibanez was in a book that was done during that period of time called Linear Expressions. So, these two guitars are what I had in my presence.

I had already worked with Gibson for quite some time, since the '60s, and finally, through endorsement, they gave me the L5S, the solid body L5S, as the first artist to bring it out in public. And I did that with Joyous Lake, the fusion group that I had out at that time. That was really a wonderful experience. And that had a lot to do with the Pat Martino model. Eventually, Gibson came back around, when I started to get more and more volatile in my performances.

Over the period that was yet to come, I started to lean towards taking advantage of promotional considerations and I contacted Gibson and said, "Let’s get back together again." And they were extremely happy about it. So, they went a step further and said, "Listen, if we’re going to get together again, why don’t we do a Pat Martino model?" And I said, "Sure, why not?" And they asked, "What would you want to do? Have any ideas?" And I said, "Let me think about it."

So, I thought about three things. I thought about the Les Paul black Custom, the one I used to really love and use, and still would be using to this very day. Of course, every instrument has its own identity and they’re all special in their own way, so you can’t be general about them. The Les Paul fretless wonder, it was put out as. The time that I got it as a kid, it was an exceptional instrument. It was just a great ax. And I used it, that’s all I ever used, until finally with Jack McDuff in 1964, or '65, our van and all of our instruments, were stolen out a Philadelphia.

We were performing at the Showboat in Philadelphia. I’ll never forget that, and my guitar was stolen. Never saw it again after that. That’s one of the implements that caused fruition of this particular model, the black Les Paul Custom.

Then came the second stage of it, which was when I replaced that guitar, I went to an ES-175 and then to a Johnny Smith model and then to an L5. I used the L5 for a long time, through a lot of albums. I really fell in love with the Florentine cutaway. Yeah, I’ll show you. [Pat points to his Signature model] So, I included the L5 in terms of the size of the width of the body, the face of it, and the Les Paul, of course. The back of the guitar, the way it rests against the chest, is the L5S. And in terms of the body, that’s where the body came from, the favorite facets of those three models. The Humbucker was originally my favorite of all pickups, because of the original Les Paul custom, the fretless wonder. It had '57 Humbuckers and I insisted, because I loved the power of that particular pickup.

Rick: Which was originally designed as a jazz pickup, not a rock pickup.

Pat:Exactly. And the lows that I get from it are astounding. They're just great! That’s where that started. And then the head, in back of the nut, I believe that’s from a Gibson 336. I personally demanded the use of that incorporated on the neck, primarily because of the strings going straight up to the keys, as opposed to shooting off to the left and the right in back of the nut. They’re going straight up the neck, just as if the neck is another elongated fret. And I did that because one of the things that I utilize technically on the instrument in terms of fingering positions on the instrument, is the first finger of the left hand behind the nut for the fingering of open strings. So, it feels exactly like anything else, no strings or fingerings are used when open strings are used. It’s fingered like all of the other things anywhere on the guitar. The straight position of the strings was a beneficial facet that added to that. And there are other facets of that, just with this specific model, just not on the market.

Rick: Your name changed from Azzara around 1957.

Pat:From Azzara to Martino.

Rick: Why'd you do that?

Pat: Yeah, there was a reason. The very same reason that I got involved with music, to get closer to my dad. My dad used the name Martino. I have no idea why. But, he used to love to sing and he was a very aggressive individual. He was the guy who wouldn’t raise his hand. Like it or not, he would belt it out. He used to love to sit in with all the big bands that would come through Philadelphia. And that’s what he did. He wanted a stage name to do that, so he named himself Mickey Martino, and that was part of his other self. And as a kid, when I started getting professional, it could have been on one of his birthdays, I’m not sure, but it would seem to be prone to be something like that nature, I took on the name Martino to please him. And, I kept it.

Rick: It’s a wonderful gift to give him.

Pat: It lifted him. It really lifted him up. It was like an advertisement of his success that his son would do that.

Rick: Many of our readers may not realize that you suffered a brain aneurism and you lost your memory. A certain degree of fortitude and thoughtfulness must have come into play for you, not only to re-learn who you were, but who you wanted to be. How did you mentally process all of that and approach the challenges?

Pat: First and foremost, I didn’t suffer aneurism. I suffered AVM. AVM is arterial venous malformation. I was born with a problem. I was born with a minute tumor, a clot, and as I grow, so too did this problem, this ailment. It was misdiagnosed for many years, and some of the symbols of misdiagnosis included depression medication, you know, anti-depressants, electric shock treatment, being in locked wards. It was diagnosed as manic depressive. But, it was none of these things until, finally, when CAT scan and MRI became active in the Western Hemisphere, in the United States, I had it my first two hours before the diagnosis. They gave me two hours to live after I was scanned, because the tumor was at a point where it was going to burst.

So, this is what caused a decision. I decided to come back to Philadelphia for the very same reason I decided to change my name from Azzara to Martino. It would have killed my father and my mother for me to die in California. So I figured, "What’s the difference?"

You have no idea how joyful it was for me to finally understand that I wasn’t crazy! I wasn’t depressed. It was over. The dilemma was over. It was conquered. I finally knew what the problem was. And it brought joy to me, not fear. Because, what I had already gone through in terms of the shock treatments, the locked wards, all of this, was a nightmare. That was a nightmare. To be able to survive that and then do that, was a story in itself.

So, I got on the airplane and flew back to Philadelphia and went straight from the airport to Pennsylvania Hospital where the operation took place. I came out the other side when they dissected over 60% of my left temple lobe with no memory, whatsoever.

And that’s when it began. What began was to be as simplistic as possible. What began was procrastination, which I think anyone would be subject to under such circumstance. To sit back and not want to go any further, because you’re tired. You’re tired of your responsibilities. In other words, like a cop out. So, I remained procrastinating for a while and then finally that became so painful that I needed a place to hide and the guitar became the place.

Rick: Did you actually forget how to play guitar, as well?

Pat: You never forget how to play guitar. I knew how to play guitar when I was a child. I knew how to play guitar when I was born. That’s why I never studied it. I’ve always played with it. It’s unfolded itself in my hands as a playful toy. It’s like a toy for a child. It’s my favorite toy. So, that’s what I’ve learned. It’s not learning, it’s enjoying.

Rick:So, the love of guitar never went away, it’s always…

Pat: The love never went away. Maybe for a while it did, because I found it very obtrusive, or intrusive. I don’t know the proper word for it, um, to have to do something that I was advised I should do by my parents. Friends, colleagues, Les Paul, including George Benson used to call mom and dad constantly trying to talk to them with, "When is he going to play again?" "How is he doing, is he playing?" And my father would say, "God no, he’s not playing! I’m so upset about this and blah, blah, blah. And we’ll get back to you sometime soon."

And they did. There were constant visits from other friends in the business. Me, personally, I was in mom and dad’s environment trying to recover. I lost my house in California. I lost all my things. Everything else was in storage. I was, gosh, you know, confused as to what should I do. I don’t know the guitar player. I would hold an album up in the bathroom in front of the mirror and I would look at my face and I would look at the face on the album and I have to say, "You know, that’s who I am, I guess. That’s what I do. But, I don’t remember doing that."

So, when I finally got back into the instrument, not for the profession or the craft, but just to take my mind off the torment internally, the depression that was taking place, that’s when refinement began and recovery ended. Uh, recovery is something I disagree with, the necessity of its presence, as well as its definition. I don’t think a person should recover. To recover is to go back to where you were prior to the event that put you out of synch with it. And then suddenly you go back to where you were and you don’t realize that where you were was what caused the event to take place.

Instead of recovery, I prefer refinement.To learn from what the mistake was that caused all these problems and to move forward in new directions. And to experience a new experience. And that’s what took place, to answer your question. And it’s still taking place.

Rick: So is it, is it like a therapy or is it therapeutic in nature to you?

Pat: It is therapeutic. It is therapeutic not to be connected or attached to a craft or profession of any type. But, to be freely open to the moment itself, to each and every moment and to,see how exquisite each one really is and not to be burdened, carrying the baggage that has nothing to do with reality. Which is the past and the future.

Rick: There’s a global sound conference out in California. Are you familiar with that? Stanley Jordan was talking about music as therapy.

Pat: Yeah, well I am familiar with music as therapy because I represented Musicare for a year in 1995. So I am fully aware of it.

Rick: Do you teach music therapy or music therapy, as part of your master class?

PM: Gee, that’s a funny thing. I don’t know what to say about that. Gee, I think so, that’s a better way of putting it. I really don’t see a need to teach or educate with something as a package of ideas. I don’t see that as realistic. I see it more realistic to watch what you’re curious about, to experience being in the presence and interacting with what you’re curious about. Coming to know what you’re curious about and opening yourself up and allowing what you’re curious about to embrace you. That’s what I think is more important than standing on the outside of something and looking from a distance and trying to analyze it. That’s a big mistake.

Rick: You’re going to be playing at the Iridium next month with "Rhubarb Red", so I can only assume you are going to be joining Les for a bit of jazz guitar. Are you two friends?

Pat: Oh, Les Paul is like my artistic father. I met Les when I was 12 years old. I even lived with him when I first went to New York city. I lived in his house in Mahwah, New Jersey. Les and I have been friendly. He’s part of the family. He used to really be in touch with my mom and dad to let them know, "He’s okay. Don’t worry about it. He’s all right." You know?

Rick: He’s your guitar papa.

Pat: He’s my guitar papa, yeah. But, we won’t be performing together. Les just so happens to perform every Monday at the Iridium. I go in on Tuesday, with my gig, for the rest of the week. But, what do I think about him? I’m in love with him. He loves Aya and me, both of us, together. We stay in touch. I mean he’s adorable. I think he’s just stupendous as an inventor and as an individual is one of the virtuosos of living. He’s so self contained and at the same time, equipped to adjust and adapt to any situation. I admire that.

Rick: So, are you friends then with another friend of his, Bucky Pizzarelli?

Pat: Sure. Bucky’s a sweetheart.

Rick: You’re headed for an international tour soon. How would you characterize audiences compared to those in different regions or other countries, Japan or the United States.

Pat: Yeah, I could characterize different audiences on two nights of the week in the same building, in the same place, and I would categorize them as well in the same way. The moment is the moment. It makes no difference. I don’t know what to say about that. I gave up on that a long time ago. The Japanese audiences were very appreciated, like European audiences.

Pat: Well, last night at Blues Alley, we had a standing ovation with people screaming.

Rick: Oh really? Yeah, that’s unusual for a jazz artist.

Pat: It was a full packed house, standing room only. So, I could say the same thing about that. That would be comparable with my greatest performances in any of the countries that I’ve performed. And likewise, I can say there are certain venues that I’ve had the lowest, terrible, terrible experiences. But, what is a terrible experience, other than the opportunity to be able to take and focus upon yourself, and how you react to the outside, and allow what is taking place on the inside, accordingly? It’s foolish to allow that to take place.

Rick: A different dimension of inspiration, I suppose…

Pat: One way or the other, it makes no difference. One way or the other, it makes no difference. If my attention is attracted to the audience, then I find that a rewarding experience. If that doesn’t, if that isn’t effective, then my attention is attracted back towards myself and the conditions that I’m interpreting and my definition of what’s taking place at the moment. If it’s a negative response, I have something to learn about myself, and that’s rewarding. I’m very objective. And I try to take advantage of any opportunity that comes up that I can re-evaluate and be as optimistic as possible in the process.

Rick: Interesting that you would use the word optimistic, even from a negative experience.

Pat: Absolutely. Sure. Yeah, look, you’re in line for an air flight and the flight is delayed, and there’s a four hour line that you have to stand in to get to the counter for a new flight, the next flight, a change, a transfer. And you’re standing there totally frustrated and explosively volcanic with regards to regret, and red in the face with anger. And you happen to turn around and you see an old woman and an older man standing in the same line that you’re standing in with less power, less strength muscular wise, physically, with smiles on their faces. And you say to yourself, "Why am I feeling so bad and they’re not?" I want to know about that is what you say to yourself. And then you see the value of that opportunity is virtue. And you then begin to pay more attention to how important patience is, and endurance and temperance. So that’s what it’s all about to me.

Rick: Thank you. Your album Remembrance, wasn't that a tribute to Wes Montgomery?

Pat: It wasn’t anything of that nature. It was about me. I’m still going through a stage of re-establishing my files of periods that are foggy. I went through some albums when I decided to do that project in my library at home, just 331/3 vinyl albums. I pulled some of the really old ones and I pulled out Wes Montgomery albums. I looked on the back and I saw ball point markings surrounding certain songs. And I saw in parenthesis on the other side of the title of the song, for instance, “Full House”. And in parentheses there would be, in the handwriting of a 13 year old child, a boy, I saw, 3/4 (3 slash 4) or 6/8 (6 slash 8) question mark. In other words, I wonder what they’re doing? What is this? Obviously, it really stimulated me. I became addicted to it. And all of these things I found on different albums, that as I child I [Pauses], and that brought my memory back to those events. And I remembered most of all wanting to be like that. Wanting to be able to do that. [Pat motions toward his hotel window] We have a little sparrow outside listening to this conversation, it’s so adorable. You see him? Spooky he’s so adorable. He’s just beautiful, he’s watching us.

Rick: He’s in the moment.

Pat: He’s in the moment. He sure is. God bless him. I did the album because I wanted to bring to fruition something I wanted as a child. I wanted to be able to do that very same thing. Which most adults have in the back of their mind. They wanted something as a child and then they get involved in their profession and hope that when they finally, through success and fruition of all their dreams come true, they reach a point where they can retire and then, maybe, they can be fortunate to reach what they wanted to do before all of that had to take place.

I’m coming from the other end. I’ve learned how to do that. Now that I’ve looked at the albums and I saw the markings, I took each one of the ones that were marked, and that’s what Remembrance is. Remembrance is not so much in dedication to Wes Montgomery. But, it was in dedication to the love that he channeled into me as a child. And for me to get back to what I desired as a child, which is childhood and the freedom to remain a child. And that’s where I remain. So, in a way, like I said to you, it seems to be a selfish act on my behalf, and I accept that in most cases it’s been advertised as a dedication, as an album dedication to Wes Montgomery, when it isn’t that at all. It’s remembrance.

Rick: But, how can you be selfish if you’re giving it back to all of us who really enjoy this?

Pat: That’s wonderful. That’s really wonderful. I’m really happy about that.

Rick: What about your next release?

Pat: I have not really given much thought to an album coming up, because I have other priorities at the moment. Primarily there are three things taking place that are very consuming, in terms of my attention. First is a documentary that has been completed by Ian Knotts and Paul Bronx from London. That will be premiered and released publicly sometime in late fall of this year. That has been over a year and half of intense work together.

Rick: Does it have a title?

Pat: The name of it is Martino Unstrung.

Rick: Unstrung?

Pat: Unstrung, yeah. And it’s a documentary that will be most likely channeled through PBS. It’s a documentary that is dealing with the operations that took place in ’79 and ’80 and the outcome. A lot to do with what we’ve briefly discussed. That’s the first. The second is something that's recently been brought to my attention, that a very large establishment is opening in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. It’s going to be, hopefully, the biggest jazz club in Philadelphia. It’s a new room and they’re going to be bringing in top names. And they want to open a club in my name. So, it’s a very demanding thing because to be involved is a business affair. So, I’ve been involved in that, as well, at this particular time. We’re doing the best we can to make that happen as soon as possible. Then the third thing is coming into fruition now, which is going to be a motion picture on my life story.

Rick: Oh, really.

Pat: Yes, that is beginning to come to pass. So, I haven’t really had the time to focus upon my next album. In fact, to be honest with you, I never did think about my next album. They always came about as the aftermath of something very valuable in terms of enjoyment. A new type of music, a new experience, maybe, affected by exposure to some new players.

For instance, a good example would be, there’s a great guitarist that I’ve recently been very stimulated by, Nelson Valdez. Nelson Valdez is originally from Brazil. But, he’s been living in Paris. He’s young, in his maybe early 30s. A wonderful, wonderful, wonderful player. And I was very stimulated. We’ve been in touch, in fact. I emailed my acceptance and my appreciation of his artistry to him, and we talked for a while. But, I think he’s a great guitarist. So, when I hear things like that, it could be Nelson, it could be Manuel Barrueca, it could be just a great artist, and I’m affected by it. Then suddenly there’s the aftermath of what that did to me that comes from the inside and suddenly there’s all this new music. And boom, there’s a new album. And I never thought that, I never gave any thought to needing a new album or what am I going to do? You know, and blah, blah, blah. It happens of its own accord.

Rick: It sort of unfolds?

Pat: It unfolds of its own nature. Yeah. Right now it seems that what is unfolding is a little bit different, although performance is, it keeps it that intact in terms of doing another recording. Although, I’ll be honest with you, the recording industry seems to be dissipating at this time.

Rick: Is that the guitar your using on stage? .

Pat: I love it. I love it because it’s a jeep. It’s a war machine. I take it on tour and I fly it out everywhere, and I have a case, and it’s just concrete. I love it. It seems to be deleting its un-necessities, you know.

So it’s a period of evolution and in some ways it’s been extremely beneficial for us, me and Aya, to have at our disposal, or at our opportunity, the ability to tour worldwide and the ability to be involved in this documentary, in the upcoming establishment in Philadelphia, in the upcoming motion picture which begins with a book. Producers are coming into Philadelphia shortly to bring in a journalist and then from the book comes the script, and then from the script it goes to Hollywood, and it moves into film there.

Rick: This must be a very exciting period of your life to be moving into that.

Pat: I hope that I will find nothing more exciting in this than I have in anything in my life. What I used to see as nightmarish, and fearful, and painful, I’m thankful for at this point in my life. Because I would not be where I’m at now, in terms of my definition of what I see as life itself. I wouldn’t be there if I didn’t accept what all of that caused. Which is where I’m at right now. So, I give dignity to it and I give appreciation to it. Every stage of it. For me to say I’m looking forward, it’s going to be better than it ever was, is a foolish thing.

Rick: It’s just another moment.

Pat: It’s just another moment.

Rick: [Points to the bird that had earlier landed on the window sill] To love, like that little bird.

Pat: To love, yes.

Rick: Let me ask you a question as far as contemporary players, I think there’s someone you’ve left out mentioning, I see this [Gibson] L4 [guitar] over here, and you haven’t mentioned anything about the player of that particular L4 in this conversation.

Pat: Yes. Yes, and I think that’s a very valid question. My wife Aya, Ayako, and I’ll be blunt about this, this is the third time I’ve committed myself to a serious relationship with another human being, another individual, on a daily basis, a marriage. This is my third marriage. And there were beautiful moments in each of the two that preceded this one, this time with me and Aya getting together. There was something different about those two that was, that had impact, that I noticed in this one, is extremely precious and rewarding in itself, and extremely challenging at the same time for both of us. Something that never happened before that is happening now.

We have a love for each other that is very deep and continuous. The one thing that I noticed that was injurious and separative about it, until now, was the fact that I would go out on the road and play with the group. I would be somewhere else every time I picked up the instrument, and that dissected our relationship. It was a bookend in the middle of it. And it was a binding. Rather, it just stood in the way of us. Aya wanted to participate, so we began to work really hard together, and the more we worked, the better it became. And sometimes, I’ll be honest with you, to play duets with my wife, me and Aya, is even more powerful than what I have to go to in the evening and do with the quartet. It’s a different genre. Totally. Though it’s turned into a total enjoyment of each other in every way, and now the instrument is part and parcel of the moment and it’s not alien in any way. So, that’s what it came down to and that might be the next album – I don’t know what to say. I have no expectations and neither does Ayako.

Related Links
Pat Martino
Gibson Guitars
Michael G. Stewart Photography

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