Stevie Ray Vaughan Interview

by Steven Rosen.

Upon entering the Columbia Records conference room, Stevie Ray Vaughan paces like a caged lion. He has just listened to a final mix of his performance on the Rocky IV soundtrack and is less than pleased. This native from Dallas, Texas, is much more than just another good ol’ boy from the south. He takes the guitar very seriously and when someone messes with his playing, he is angered. So furious was he about his work on the “Living in America” track (featuring James Brown), that he asked some of the label reps in the room if it was too late to have his name removed from the package.

After several minutes, Stevie cooled down enough to take a seat. He lit a cigarette, tried to arrest his breathing, and we began our conversation. This exchange took place on October 29, 1985, just five years short of his passing on August 27, 1990. Unbelievably, Vaughan’s entire recording career (from the time he was signed to a major label) only lasted for four studio albums: Texas Flood (1983); Couldn’t Stand the Weather (1984); Soul To Soul (1985); and In Step (1989). Soul To Soul had just been released and while talk would eventually find its way there, the conversation began with the great blues player’s work with Albert King.

The whole world knows that Albert King was a major influence on the way you play. In fact, he even christened himself your ‘godfather’ in terms of style. What was it like playing with Albert on the 'In Session' album a couple of years ago? [The recording was released posthumously in 1999.]

Stevie Ray Vaughan: It was to be able to give him a chance to put out a record that sounds like he wants to sound for a change, as opposed to a producer molding his sound. He wants things exactly like he wants ‘em. That takes pretty easy-to-deal-with musicians because when Albert wants somethin’, he gets it or he gets mad. And I can understand it.

Are you like that? Are you demanding of the people with whom you play?

SRV: Oh, only to a certain degree. If I know someone can do it and I know that they’re just being lazy, I might get a little edgy.

You were a bit edgy about your performance on the 'Rocky IV' soundtrack? [Stevie played on the James Brown track, “Living in America".]

SRV: I don’t understand it at all. It’s kind of, I don’t want to take it this way, but it’s kind of insulting. There’s only enough of what I played on there to legally use my name. You can’t really even tell what I played.

If someone didn’t know you were on the track, they would be hard pressed to identify you as the guitar player?

SRV: I can show you what I played on it and where I played. I mean I played on the whole thing; they had me do the whole thing several times so that they could have different parts of the same style to use. And this is the first mix I’ve heard that didn’t use my guitar part all the way through. And I’d used parts off of a song that I was writin’ and I blew it off. I blew it off so that I could keep this one in a separate place. Now they didn’t use my parts that are on there. I don’t know, it’s just that I’m kinda shocked.

And how do you feel about your new album, 'Soul To Soul'? It is a stretch musically from the 'Couldn’t Stand the Weather' record.

SRV: I like the record a lot but the sound quality could be better on it. The way it was mixed originally was a lot stronger. It was re-EQ’d and remastered in California after we had been through with it as far as we knew. Someone took it out here and tried to make it their record. And it turned out to be this little skinny sounding thing with a hole in it. And we took it back to New York and in two hours we put some balls back in it.

As far as what’s on there song-wise, I like the album a lot. It meant a lot to us what we went through to get this record. There were a lot of odds and we still stayed strong. We grew a lot with the people in the band and immediate friends around us; we learned a lot and grew a lot closer. That has a lot to do with why it’s called that.

Are you fairly critical of the sound of your guitar on records?

SRV: It’s really important ‘cause I know what it sounds like when I’m playing it and especially in a studio situation where you have control over it. And I do want it to sound as big as it can and there is different ways to go about it. I know that I have plenty of signal on this record; I played through every amp that I had and could find. And all of ‘em, I played through all of ‘em at the same time. I had all of these, I had lots of things to choose from.

You’ve been working with Dumble amplifiers lately?

SRV: Well, I’ve had one for goin’ on two years. Two years, I guess, in about, God, I wanna say it’s been two years [already] but it may be middle of next month. I’m not really sure. I’ve got another one ordered. They’re great amps; when they’re workin’ right they sound like an overgrown Fender. I keep using Fenders as well along with ‘em. There’s these two Vibroverbs, number 5 and 6, and there’s one of ‘em, number 5, just sounds different than any other one. And it gets funny, when it starts getting kind of worn out soundin’ the only way to get it to sound fat and clear is to turn it all the way up and make it work harder. And it works. In the studio, we kept goin’, "Where’s all this fat comin’ from?" We singled it out and it was right there, two 40-watt amps, standin’ right in the middle of 650 watts. And they were like fatter than them.

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Does the Marshall sound appeal to you on any level?

SRV: Yeah, I used to have one that I sold and I could kick myself for it day after day. It was a first series SuperBass and I found another one that I’m gonna check out and see how it is because I think it would probably fit in real well with at least part of the sound.

Your main guitar is the Fender Stratocaster and yet you’re pictured on the cover of 'Soul To Soul' with a Gibson. Any reason why?

SRV: Mmm, I played it on some of the...on one or two of the songs. That’s what I had with me that day, too. [Laughs.] [The Gibson] is on "Empty Arms" and, let’s see here, actually I guess that’s the only one that I left it on; I’d used it on one of the takes of "Say What!"’ but I ended up using my Stratocaster on there. So, I guess it’s just on "Empty Arms" but it’s on the rhythm part, lead part, and what sounds like a organ. It’s a guitar. I play the drums on it. I play everything but bass and piano.

Are you a real drummer?

SRV: Yeah, but I don’t get a chance to play too often. When I practice for a couple of weeks at a time, I can play the shit out of ‘em. I have fun doin’ it, too.

And how do you gauge your progression as a singer?

SRV: I’m only startin’ to learn how to sing. Finally. Singin’ instead of hollerin’. It’s still fun to holler. [Stevie picks up a Chet Atkins acoustic-electric guitar that has been brought into the interview room and tears out a stunning blues lick.]

Do you actually tune down your guitar to accommodate your singing?

SRV: Actually it’s the sound of it I like.

Hendrix used to do the same thing because he was conscious about his singing – is this where you picked it up?

SRV: He tuned down, not always, but like during different phases. I started off doin’ it ‘cause it was easier to sing and I was having throat problems [Vaughan was a relatively heavy smoker]; it was two or three years ago. I got used to it and I liked the way it sounded better; it was easier to work the guitar, harmonics are different, they act differently. [Stevie kisses the guitar in his hand and mutters, "People think they’re just pieces of wood."]

Did you ever meet Jimi?

SRV: Not in person. I wish. I’ve met him in many dreams. But I’ve also tried to play some of the stuff that I was shown in those dreams and it took me a while to figure out why none of it worked. I was bewildered but I finally figured out if it had been that easy I wouldn’t have learned anything, you know?

Is this where your cover of "Voodoo Chile" on the 'Couldn’t Stand the Weather' album came from?

SRV: Well, I always wanted to try it and then when we tried it it sounded right. We’d just played it for quite a while and ended up recordin’ that, we recorded that and "Little Wing’/"Third Stone" [From the Sun] [medley], "Come On" and what else? On Couldn’t Stand the Weather we recorded all that, then we did a lot of it again this time and just ended up using "Come On". [The "Little Wing"/"Third Stone" medley was added to later releases of Soul To Soul].

You actually own Hendrix’s original wah-wah? Is that it on "Voodoo Chile"?’

SRV: Mmm hmm. It’s a great wah-wah. It’s that one and sometimes I use two.

Two wah-wahs at the same time?

SRV: Yeah, I did it a couple of different ways during the session. Sometimes I would just sit on a stool and work both of them separately. Sometimes I would get a piece of rackmount, you know what I’m talkin’ about? The spacer. And I would set it on top of the wah-wahs with the major part of it hangin’ off in the back so when you turn it on and take your foot off, it wouldn’t go squeak [imitates the rise/fall of a wah-wah]. And what it amounted to is if you hit the front end on the right-hand side you could turn that one on by itself and if you hit on the left-hand side you could turn it on and off. And in the middle it was like serious overdrive. But it was fun.

You can get some wild sounds out of ‘em ‘cause one of ‘em drives the other one and then it goes from there and then I’m drivin’ the first wah-wah with a [Ibanez] Tube Screamer. So by the time it gets to the amp it’s like, it’s fun, it’s a lot of fun.

Typically, do you experiment much in the studio? Is that a facet of recording that intrigues you?

SRV: Yeah. Some people don’t understand that but it’s nice when it really just gets to the point then that it [music] doesn’t get played so much that you’re overdoing a lot of things; that it’s fresh ideas. And they come out fresh and if you’re already in the mode, I guess, to simplify some things so that it comes across better on record, it’s the right time to be tasteful with somethin’. Even though there’s reasons to try things that may or may not work, it’s still a real intimate way to finish the song with everybody right there in the band just locked in.

When you lay down tracks, are you out there with the band in a live situation with all three of you performing at the same time?

SRV: Uh huh, most of it I didn’t do a bunch of [overdubs]. Most of it I did the guitar playing all at once. But a couple of the songs I did double on this time. Well, on "Empty Arms" ‘cause there’s no way I can play all that stuff at once and "Change It" I was singin’ it as someone else was playing the rhythm on the first time. Then I was playin’ the solos then I went back and put a rhythm part ‘cause it really needed one. The guy who wrote it [Doyle Bramhall] was playing rhythm and he plays it like [Stevie picks up the Chet Atkins and proceeds to bang out a terribly simplistic rhythmic figure]. So, I thought, you know, it needed more than that but he’s a great songwriter, and a great drummer, and great singer. But I think it needed a little more than what it had.

You produced the new record in the same way you’ve produced all the earlier albums. Might there come a time when you’d bring in an outsider to produce?

SRV: Mmm, maybe co-produce. But we pretty much know what we want to do with the records because we all produce together. There are stages of it when they all trust me to it but I’m wide open for input at all times with it ‘cause we’re all in this band, not just me...because somebody wants contracts signed with my name on it doesn’t mean that this band, doesn’t mean that the band is all just sidemen. This is a band, not a guy with a bunch of sidekicks.

You’re able to stand back from a solo and be objective enough and know when you’ve captured the moment?

SRV: Yeah, when it’s right, I get chill bumps and things when it feels good.

And the ’59 Stratocaster is the guitar upon which these solos were played?

SRV: It’s still the main one. It’s still my first wife, I can’t leave her. I had to change one of ‘em [pickups] for a while ‘til I got one of ‘em [original pickups] worked on. I just had to dick it in dips [pot the pickup] but I had to get it to the right person who knew how to do it right – Charley, Charley Wirz, who is now gone; he died in February. I miss him. I’m sure he’s up there dealing guitars somewhere – and still making fair deals.

You’ve added keyboardist Reese Wynans to the Double Trouble trio – how has that expanded the sound?

SRV: Yeah, I’ve been wantin’ to work with a keyboard player again for quite a while. Reese is one of the best I’ve ever heard. He came in to do a piano part on "[Look At] Little Sister" and we got to talkin’ and we got this wild look in each other’s eye again. He goes, "You still want me in your band?" I says, "Yeah!” He says, "‘When do I start?" and I say, "Now."

There is no actual synth on the album is there – only Hammond and piano?

SRV: He’s been bringing one to the gigs lately, but he only uses it on one song to double a part that I do. It’s got a great clavinet sound on it though that I’m tryin’ to get him to use it more. ‘Cause if you play it right, then it’s more like a guitar sound mixed with a piano. ‘Course, I like the real funky.

Do you like working more in the trio format than in other configurations?

SRV: I like playing in trio form and I like working with keyboards and I like working with huge horn sections. I just, I like all different phases of it. Chris [Layton, drummer) and I used to play gigs, just he and I every once in a while. I’d just plug the microphone in one side of my amp and plug my guitar in the other. The great part about it is you don’t have to pay attention to when you change – you can do it whenever you want to.

Why do you think these last several years have seen a boom in the popularity of the blues? You did the Montreux shows in ’82 and it’s just been building from there.

SRV: We think that they’re [fans] getting a chance to hear it because it’s being accepted by [record] companies. A lot of bands have opened up a lot of doors for other people. We’re trying to do the same thing and it seems to be workin’ pretty well. There’s more of a trend, by the marketing of this kind of music, to make it more accessible and that’s a wonderful thing because blues and rhythm-and-blues is pretty much the roots of damn near every kind of American music I can think of. And it’s never bad to have where it came from start off to be listened to again instead of being a stepchild. It was a stepdaddy.

How far from the blues would you stray? Would you do a pop tune?

SRV: To be honest with you, I’m not sure what a pop tune is. I’m sure if I hear it on the radio, I’d say that’s pop or this or that. But, really, what I pay attention to the most is just music that moves me. It’s all at least a root-type music instead of a formula.

Were the sessions with David Bowie and the 'Let’s Dance' album a departure for you?

SRV: The waiting was the hard part ‘cause what I was doing was I would go in for say about fifteen, twenty minutes while he was doing his vocals and get an idea of how the song went and play with it for a little bit, just to myself. And then get away from it because I didn’t wanna wear out the ideas that I had. And I also didn’t want to play in places that he was planning on himself filling up with vocals. He was finishing up vocals and things and arrangements as he was goin’ as well. So a lot of the things had to be, I needed to let the holes that I would play in develop so that I didn’t have wrong ideas beforehand. I ended up doing it all in about two-and-a-half, three days. In fact, some people got mad at me because I was not willing to take a cut in pay because I was done already.

Did you actually do any of the live shows with Bowie?

SRV: Unh unh. There was a whole different light on the subject almost that had nothing to do with the way he offered the tour. We [Double Trouble] were supposed to open up all the shows and he was supposed to be wanting to have us in that situation to help us out. And as it turned out, I was supposed to quit them [Double Trouble] and not have anything to do with them, not do interviews or anything. And, I’m sorry, I’ve worked for that a long time. Fame and this big tour is really not that important.

And you’re on tour right now?

SRV: We go to Mississippi, no, not Mississippi, excuse me, Memphis tonight. And then take off for, I believe, Florida from there, it’s either there or Atlanta, where we start tourin’ with the Thunderbirds which will be a lot of fun. I haven’t got to do that with my brother in a long time, I’m lookin’ forward to it because we both need to get on each other’s case a little bit. And when I say that I don’t mean in any kind of a rival meaning at all. I mean we have fun makin’ each other get out there and work our butts off and grin at each other while we do it. It really is fun.

And then you’re off to Japan?

SRV: That’s the way it looks like in the middle of February [1986], the last two weeks of February, we’ll be doin’ Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Hong Kong and Bangkok I hear. From there I don’t have any more of the schedule yet so I guess I’ll see when everybody else does. I’ll probably hear it on MTV; that’s happened plenty of times. Find out what we’re doin’ by turning on TV and go, "Oh, I guess that’s the way the mop flops."

You have to be more than pleased with the way your career has progressed.

SRV: Sure. I hope I don’t sound like a old biddy. Hell, I just kinda got a shock, I wasn’t ready for that [referring to the Rocky IV soundtrack]. I was all pumped to hear it; I guess I’ll have to find out what happened. I’m afraid we already talked about that.

When you return from touring, will you start concentrating on writing for the next album?

SRV: Well, actually I’ll be writing in the meantime. Also be working on these soundtracks which is gonna be...I’ve never got the chance to do it before. There’s a lot involved there and I’d like to make it really strong; I don’t have any desire to do it if it’s not gonna be right. [Note: In 1987, Vaughan would appear on Back to the Beach, a year later on Bull Durham and posthumously, Stevie’s music could be heard on a handful of releases including Major League II and The Dukes of Hazzard.]

I got that impression today.

SRV: Yeah. Alright?
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Related links
Sony Music Stevie Ray Vaughan Site
W.A. Williams Photography
Behind the Lens: W.A. Williams
The Essential Stevie Ray Vaughan, An Interview with Author Craig Hopkins

Classic Interview Series on Modern Guitars Magazine
1977 Jimmy Page Interview (Audio/Text)
Ritchie Blackmore (1975)
Rory Gallagher (circa 1994)
Jeff Beck (1989)

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